Interview: MacGuire Benton, Otsego County Clerk Candidate
By DARLA M. YOUNGS
COOPERSTOWN
I’m hearing a lot of feedback from readers who feel that the role of county clerk really should not be an elected position. Should it be an elected position or an appointed position? Why?
Well, you know, that’s not really for me to decide. The Constitution of the State of New York makes that decision and I’m gonna stick with that. [Editor’s note: Outside of New York City’s five counties, all county clerks are elected for a four-year term and are also the land records recorders for their respective counties. New York City’s five county clerks are appointed, and only the Richmond County Clerk (Staten Island) serves as land records recorder in that county.]
In a recent press release, you said “I’ve built my plan for the Clerk’s office and DMV…” If you were successful in your campaign, how much would reopening a DMV office in Oneonta cost? How much would a mobile DMV cost? Where would the money come from? What’s your plan?
So it took about a quarter million dollars to operate it. It brought in the revenue that it took to run it. I think that’s what’s really important for people to understand, that the department is a revenue generator. I hope to partner with the City of Oneonta on their transit hub project. The city has a $6.5 million dollar federal DOT grant. I would like to lean on the city as they proceed with that transit hub project, hopefully for it to be built with the intention of housing a DMV in it. I think [we] can keep costs really low for local taxpayers. Of course, there’ll be administrative overhead on it. Salaries in the DMV are between $30,000 and $40,000, you figure. I think it can be done with three staff. You know, originally it did have four. We’re looking at $100,000 or so in salaries. Again, what’s really important is, despite there being initial costs associated with reopening, the revenue that it brings in will pay for it. It will end up a wash for taxpayers.
When that office closed, are you suggesting that the revenue that office was making went to other counties?
No. When the office was open, 10.75 percent of every DMV transaction stayed in the county. That was a good thing. Closing the [Oneonta] DMV is the problem. You know, they don’t want to, in the middle of July come to Cooperstown and try to find a parking spot. It’s not convenient access at the main office here. You go through security and, you know, it’s a headache, and if you’re relying on public transportation, the bus stop is a quarter mile from the front door of the county building. If you’re a senior citizen, and have mobility issues, that’s not convenient. It’s not accessible.
So back to the question—the money’s not really going to someone else. You’re saying it’s more of a convenience problem, not a problem with money?
It absolutely is a money problem. [People] are going to Sidney. They’re going to Norwich, or they’re going to Delhi. In the southern part of the county, it’s more accessible. They’re gonna have to make a drive one way or the other.
How much money have we lost to other counties since the closing of the Oneonta DMV office, do you think? Is there a record of that?
No, it would be hard to quantify it because you’d have to go to other counties. You’d have to go to Delaware County, Chenango County and have them try to estimate it. It’s clear though, in communities, that that’s the popular thing to do.
Right. But I guess what I’m asking is, there must be a budget and it must show the income. Has the income decreased for the DMV?
[It was basically] a wash.
What about expenses? How many expenses were cut by closing the DMV office?
They’re not really saving money because the revenue dollars were being brought in through, you know, revenue streams. But taxpayers are losing services.
Where would the money come from to reopen an Oneonta DMV? What about hard costs?
Well, once we get up and running, the money’s going to come from revenue, from transactions. Depending on who wins this election, that’s when [I would] immediately begin discussions with the City of Oneonta in a little more of an official capacity, with the hopes of partnering with them, in terms of ADA compliance and a build-out and being prepared to rent space essentially to the county. The clerk’s office is a revenue generator, returning about $300,000.00 in surplus to the general fund every year. If people support my plans for the department, some of those dollars [might be needed to get the Oneonta DMV up and running]. I will have those budget discussions with the county board.
DMV clerks must take and pass a level 8 civil service exam in order to be hired. Would you be willing to take one?
I think that the people of Otsego County are gonna make the decision [as to] whether or not I’m capable. At the end of the day, it’s up to the people to make that decision. There isn’t a civil service requirement to be clerk.
I know that, but I’m just wondering whether or not, to be on a level playing ground, would you consider taking an exam to see how you score?
Well, I think I’m in this race because I am on a level playing ground and I look forward to working with them [DMV clerks].
Why should voters choose you over someone who has been working in the clerk’s office for 14 years, has taken and passed those exams, and risen in the ranks in the usual fashion?
I think this race is about quality, it’s not about longevity. Being somewhere for 14 years doesn’t make you the right choice.
Doesn’t make you the wrong one.
That’s perfectly fair. But I think people have to look at the record of the clerk’s office specifically. Today people are paying more and getting less from the county. They don’t have DMV services in the City of Oneonta anymore, and people in the southern part of the county have to go outside of the county to get services. We don’t do CDL testing anymore. We don’t accept credit cards. We don’t accept debit cards. We don’t have drop boxes. I mean, we are so far behind what our neighboring counties offer. There’s just no record of accomplishment. I think it has to go back to the fact that there hasn’t been a contested race for county clerk in 20 years.
You said recently you were running because there’s important work to be done to improve the office. You mentioned the need to improve customer satisfaction and the process of transactions and filing. And my question was going to be what, specifically, are you going to improve? But it sounds to me from your previous answers that you’re going to add services.
Being fiscally responsible, but also striving to do more is how we’re going to speed up those transactions and how we’re going to provide better access to residents. I’m also going to implement a feedback system both digitally and in person.
You have referred to the county clerk position as an “executive leadership position.” My understanding is that for Otsego County this is primarily a full time, hands-on, working job that involves being in the office, supervising staff and performing related tasks, as opposed to simply supervising, and very different from the same position in a larger county which is more politically motivated. How do you plan to learn the job and how long do you think it will take?
I’m in this race because I’m ready to do the job on day one. All of my prior experience as a deputy commissioner of elections in the county, which was a demanding clerical role. I served as the absentee clerk through COVID-19. I’m very familiar with paperwork, I’m very familiar with state mandates and requirements of this job. All of my professional and political experience before this race prepared me to do this job. But I’ve been in this race for almost a year. I’ve spent a lot of time on the phone with county clerks across the state. Jamie Romeo, the Monroe County clerk has been wonderful. She’s the gold standard of county clerks. I have prepared to do this job for the people. I’m familiar with the systems of indexing. I’m familiar with the schedule of fees. I’m familiar with the ins and outs of the jobs, the oaths, the affirmations, you know, the documents that are housed in the county clerk’s office, the land records and civil transactions. To have fresh eyes, to examine the processes and procedures of the department. I think that’s where we can affect change if it’s appropriate and we’re able to do it, we’ll do it. But I’m not just gonna go in and blow things up and change things just for the sake of doing it. That’s not productive.
According to current clerk Kathy Sinnott Gardner, either the county clerk or the deputy clerk trains the staff. How will you train staff, having never worked in such an office before?
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I think that in terms of leadership, I’m a collaborator. My staff is going to know me on a professional level, but on a personal level, too. We’ll have close working relationships. Their questions will be answered. We will proceed together. I look forward to speaking with Penney Gentile, the personnel officer, and familiarizing myself with the union reps and, you know, just engaging. I’m a people person. I’ve always been that way. I think the staff can feel good about that. If I win this election, we’ll lead together.
It’s no secret that you have political aspirations above and beyond county clerk. If you were to be elected, is this just a stepping stone for your political career?
Oh my God, that’s kind. It’s an honor that you’re asking me that question, but I mean, no, I’m running for reelection if I’m elected. If I have the privilege to serve as county clerk, I’m running for reelection, you know? And what do you mean? It’s not a secret that I want to go do something else?
Well, if you look at your record—I looked you up and I’ve looked at what you’ve done—you’re a very political animal. So I don’t think your political career stops with county clerk.
I’m a public service animal. But also, if you look at the numbers around here, I’m not going to be the state senator from this district… I mean, I’ve been a community organizer, you know, on the side of campaigns, and I’m very familiar. You know, it’s hard for a Democrat in upstate New York to take it much higher than where we are right now.
You said in answer to an interview question recently that the county clerk must be “present and available in every community across Otsego County.” What do you mean by that, being that this is primarily an office job?
County clerks define their roles as clerk. Obviously there’s all of the everyday, traditional work that every county clerk is doing. Some clerks, they stay just in the office. They do their job nine to five. That’s it. The taxpayers of Otsego County are going to get a lot more time with me than just 40 hours in the office. I’m going to hold a town hall in every county board district in my first year as clerk. There are 14 districts, which means there’ll be 14 town halls. That’s more than one per month. And I’m going to go out, I’m going to listen, and I’m going to engage with people. A lot of folks have no idea what the clerk’s office is, what it does, what a county clerk is. And part of that is because, in other counties, we see clerks out all the time in communities. Other than the occasional newspaper clip, nobody really knows Kathy Gardner other than, you know, just everyday life. But, I’m going to go out and engage, hosting town halls, listening, doing a thank-you tour if I’m elected. I want to stay present. That’s been a priority in the campaign—to be available to people, not just in an office where you have to come in through security.
You have said that the part of the county clerk job you will enjoy least is “fighting Albany’s burdensome bureaucracy and unfunded mandates.” What unfunded mandates have impacted the County Clerk’s Office and/or DMV?
It’s a good question. Well, you know, I think one of the biggest mandates is that the state takes almost every single dollar from the transactions. [laugh] You know? Luckily they just passed legislation on January 1st that they’re going to uniform online transactions versus in-person transactions, where the county will get a uniform 10.75 percent, which will be a great bump in revenue. I think the biggest mandate is that Albany takes all the money. I would like to see the counties get 15 percent, and the County Clerk’s Association has a legislative agenda that has championed 15 percent. The biggest problem with Albany is that they take all the money, but they’re not doing a lot of the work.
You have talked a lot about community service and volunteerism—traits that are, indeed, admirable. How relevant, though, is volunteerism with regard to a working position such as county clerk?
Well, it is. It’s an elected position. It requires you to do a lot of work, but it is an elected role, you know, and I think that right now we’re seeing in the country a movement of people who are hungry for a new generation of leadership. They’re tired of lifelong bureaucrats who lean on a culture of saying no and doing nothing because it’s convenient. I grew up in a household where service to others was prioritized. You stuck around, you worked hard. You went to work for your community. That’s what’s led me to public service and all the jobs I’ve ever had. I think that volunteerism and community service is absolutely relevant to the county clerk’s office. It’s a customer service job. I think it’s totally relevant.
One of our readers made a comment on our website that I chose not to post, in response to the correction we printed regarding the court decision to allow you to run under the Customer Service party line, as the language was rather harsh, but he had a good point. How does someone who served as a deputy elections commissioner turn in so many invalidated signatures, 147 by my count?
We had dozens and dozens of people carrying petitions. The process of getting an independent line on the ballot is antiquated and extremely demanding. For folks who don’t understand the petition process, I understand why someone might have a question like that, but the bottom line is, anybody who has ever run a campaign, you go out, you get as many signatures as you can. If you’re a good petitioner, you ask the proper questions. You know, are you a resident of Otsego County? Are you registered to vote? But when you have five weeks to get, you know, 1,106 good signatures, you’re out there pushing hard. It is absolutely standard for there to be a number of signatures that are bad and won’t survive. That is absolutely by the book, normal operating procedure. That’s why the objections process exists. The goal is to get the bare minimum. There’s nothing there. I mean, you can talk to anybody who’s ever had to go out and get a ton of signatures. Ashley Fassett’s letter in the newspaper was a total hatchet job. There was no room for error when I was deputy commissioner. I was the absentee clerk, deputy commissioner through COVID-19, and we ensured that 11,000 absentee voters were able to exercise their franchise without an error. We got the job done. And I’m really proud of that. I think it’s an easy misunderstanding as to why it would be questionable. But that’s why the objection process exists.
Why did you feel it was necessary to run under the Customer Service party affiliation?
Under New York State law, you can have two lines on the ballot. I urge every candidate to have two lines on the ballot. If you want to win and make your numbers work, having a second line on the ballot is a good thing. But we had a very specific intention as to why we went out and got those signatures. I’m no stranger to the political demographics of Otsego County. I know that this county skews to the Republicans. I knew I would have to work 10 times as hard as my opponent, who could do next to nothing and win this election. There are some voters who might really like me and really like my ideas, but just can’t quite get themselves to vote on the Democratic ticket. So we wanted to give them an alternative. I also think it shows we’re going to prioritize customer service. I’m going to prioritize taking care of people and making sure that the department is operating at the highest level of customer service at all times. We did it for that [reason], but we also did it so that people from all parties who didn’t want to vote Democrat could vote for me on another line.
Attention to detail will be an important prerequisite to the county clerk position. I recently had to print a correction regarding a press release issued from your office that contained more than one error in fact. Shame on me for not fact checking properly. If elected, what steps will you take to ensure correspondence and information coming from your office has been accurate and has been fact checked?
That’s an interesting question. I have my qualms with the correction that was printed because Ashley Fassett is Jennifer Basil’s campaign manager. She is also an employee of the county and works in the county clerk’s office. There is no real degree of separation there. Now, when we said more than 1,300, it should have been almost 1,300. It was 1,264, you know, or 1,266, or whatever the number was of signatures that we filed. Were they all good? No, but they were still signatures from voters. There are signatures that were thrown out from voters who had the right address and printed their signature correctly. The date was right, but the town was wrong, because [signatories} are not exactly sure what town they vote in, you know. It’s challenging. There’s a lot of intricacies of petitioning. So, you know, I have my qualms with that. I am a details guy and I think that the blessing of the county clerk’s office is that it’s a records room. [laugh] The information as it comes in has to be accurate, which means that information when it goes out is accurate. I think that thoroughness is critical. I have no qualms about being able to ensure that the details of the job and of information provided are 100 percent accurate.
Why did you choose to run for the position of county clerk, with no previous clerking experience?
I have clerking experience, but I also have local government experience. I also have private sector experience, operational and management experience. I’ve spent 10 years, and I know I’m young, but I really have worked with Cooperstown Distillery for 10 years in customer service. A major part of this job is handling people and working with customers and being able to function in an environment like that. But I’m running for county clerk because I’m experienced. I have the credentials and I’m prepared to do this job and I think I will do the job best. I think I’ve demonstrated that over and over again. My opponent refuses to debate. I think that that shows the people exactly what she thinks about them that she can skirt by through this election and hope that she comes out on top without having to face the voters and defend her principles and advocate for her ideas under pressure. I’ve been doing that the whole time I’m running for county clerk because I think that there are pressing issues that we face and that I would like to solve those issues. I’d like to work in collaboration with town and city and county government to evaluate the needs of the solutions that we can offer. I’m running also because I love Otsego County. I’m the only lifelong local in this race. Jennifer will tell you herself, she grew up in Fulton County. Now does that matter to everybody? Maybe not, but I think that being represented and hiring one of your own is important to people and I think it’s relevant that we’re the only lifelong local in this race, and I want to do the job on behalf of people, and you have to run for the job.
So basically you’re telling me that in terms of the legal documents that you’ll be handling, and those processes, you’re familiar with deeds, leases, mortgages, judgments, federal tax liens, court proceedings, business names, pistol permits, power of attorney filings, etc.” Have you worked with these documents before?
Yep. All of my professional experience, both in the private and the public sector, prepared me to do this job. But also I spent two terms as a village board member, which is a legislative role that has implications from state and federal entities as well as a village board member. I made tough decisions with my colleagues to navigate Cooperstown through the COVID-19 pandemic, the greatest public health crisis in a hundred years, and then a subsequent economic fallout that resulted in $800,000.00 needing to be cut out of two budget cycles. A lot of my public service has been in times of crisis, so I feel tested and I think that I am really proud of my public service and I think I did a good job and I think that all of the letters coming in and the fact that I’m 25 and I was nominated to run for this job without a primary suggests that people share that confidence in my ability to deliver.
What is the largest number of people you have supervised at one time, and at what job?
So, I am going to answer this in kind of two parts. The first one is in my private sector job, working in business, I manage relationships with 100 distributor representatives across the state of New York as well as distribution partners in numerous states across the country—New Jersey, Florida, Texas—and would you call it supervising them directly? Maybe not. But you’re still working with multiple layers of people, managing those relationships, ensuring that deadlines are met and that people are receiving product in a timely manner, which I think lends itself to my people management skills. But the tone gets set at the top in this job. I really am a from the bottom up and the middle out kind of guy. So I have no concerns with ability to work with a team. I’ve been a team player for a long time, but also as a community organizer. I organized in 22 states across, I’m sorry, 22 counties across the state of New York. I’ve served as a deputy campaign manager. I’ve served as a lead field organizer where I was managing hundreds of volunteers, but also overseeing a team of six to 10 people at a time over large geographic areas. So I come to the table with plenty of people, leadership, supervision and management [skills] for the ripe old age of 25. I’ve done a lot. I’ve had a lot of important roles.
The current county clerk has been in that position for 20 years and your opponent has worked in the office for 14 years. Does this intimidate you in any way?
Not in the slightest. I think that people have a really important decision to make, and here’s why. Ms. Sinnott Gardner has been there for 20 years, and I like Kathy. I don’t have any personal [issues with her], although she roasted me in the newspaper, but that’s all right. I got a thick skin. I like Kathy. I think she’s a woman of grit and determination, so I respect her greatly, but she’s been there for 20 years. I view this election as one opportunity to elect new leadership, because Ms. Basil’s 46—you can assume if she’s elected and no one chooses to run for this job, again, to challenge an incumbent clerk, she’ll probably serve for 20 years. She’s 46, 66 is retirement age. It’s just kind of an assumption or a projection, whatever you want to call it. But then all of the sudden it’s 40 years later and the same two people have run the department for 40 years. I don’t think that is good for evolving the department. I think it’s very comfortable for lifelong bureaucrats to lean on a culture of no, like I said before, do nothing. Why go the extra mile when you don’t have to, when no one ever runs against you? It’s not good for business, I don’t think. It’s not good for government, either.
There are those who believe it “will be a total disaster if an inexperienced person gets elected” as county clerk. How do you respond to this?
Wow, that’s harsh. Well, it’s a good thing that there’s nobody in this race who has no experience. The people can feel good about November 8th because whoever wins this job has the competency and the ability to do the job. I think that people need to lean on the kind of leadership that they want. They have qualified leadership on both sides. They need to choose between leadership who has no record of ever going the extra mile and no solid record of any real achievement or leadership that is dedication in action. It’s going the extra mile. It’s collecting feedback and building a plan from it. I think that people need to decide the kind of leadership that they want, but at the end of the day, experience is a non-issue. My opponent would love to be running against someone who truly didn’t know what they were doing because she’d be in much better shape.
I understand the county clerk appoints the deputy clerk. If you win, would you retain your opponent in that position or appoint a new deputy?
My campaign has never been about firing Jennifer Basil or getting rid of Jennifer Basil. My campaign’s never been about Jennifer Basil, although she has made her campaign very much about McGuire Benton, which I don’t think is a good way to run. But the position of deputy clerk, if Mrs. Basil wants to stay, she, just like anybody else who wants to serve as a deputy clerk, can put a resume in to be considered, go through the normal steps. And I don’t even think that it’s legal for me to make promises on who gets a job. I actually think that there’s state law that says that I shouldn’t or can’t do that. I’m going to make sure that the office is staffed at 100 percent as quickly as possible. If there are resignations, whether it’s the deputy county clerk or any other staff who feels like maybe they won’t stay on as part of the administration, I’m looking forward to going and reviewing the civil service list and going to the personnel director and working to ensure that the department’s operating at 100 percent at all times. But I don’t know why anybody would want to walk away from a good public service job with good benefits and union protections.
Does it bother you that a lot of the letter writers in support of your opponent are lawyers and they’re coming at it from that perspective, that they’re worried about their documents getting filed correctly, and how do you feel about that?
Nothing keeps me up at night. It doesn’t bother me in this business. No matter what, you got to have a thick skin. But something tells me that these lawyers who have concerns, they know better. I think we have to understand that this is a political campaign. The other team does not want to lose. So of course they’re going to people who’ve worked with her and asking for it. And when we filed that lawsuit, I called a dozen lawyers in Otsego County for representation. Not a single one of them would represent me. I had to go to Delaware County to get a lawyer, and it’s because they [Otsego County lawyers] didn’t want to upset the current administration out of fear of reprisal. A couple of them were honest with me about why they wouldn’t represent me. Most of them said, “We have conflict of interest.” Some of them said, “We really don’t want to upset the county clerk’s office. We can’t afford for our work to be on the bottom of the pile.”
Where do you see yourself in five years?
Running for reelection.